Once upon a time, there were only three TV channels to watch, and in the late 1970s, no show was bigger than Laverne & Shirley, a sitcom starring Cindy Williams and Penny Marshall as roommates who worked at a Milwaukee beer factory. The series was a spin-off from a Happy Days episode in which Fonzie had arranged for Laverne (Marshall) and Shirley (Williams) to double date with him and Richie (Ron Howard). By its third season, Laverne & Shirley was the number one show in the country, and its stars became cultural icons.
I caught up with Cindy last April and we talked by phone about her then-upcoming one-woman show, “Me, Myself, and Shirley”, which she performed at High Point Theatre. The show was a big hit and we stayed in touch after that, but I wondered why I didn’t get a response to my most recent email. Now I know why. Cindy had been in bad health the past few months, and on January 25 she passed away at the age of 75. The following are highlights from our conversation back in April.
JL: Do you remember the first time you performed on stage?
CW: Yes, it was in the first grade, and they had a talent show, and I sang “Hickory Dickory Dock”, and I had total stage fright, but I did it.
JL: Do you remember who won the talent show?
CW: No, but I’m sure it was some ne’er-do-well first-grader [laughs].
JL: When did you first realize that you wanted to act professionally?
CW: It was in high school. I had wanted to be a nurse, but I didn’t have an academic brain, so I entered a talent show at school, and the drama teacher, Mr. Kulp, said, “If you have an elective, I’d like to offer you a spot this coming semester to be in ‘Play Production’” so I did. That’s when I thought I’d like to be able to earn a living from acting. I just loved it so much.
JL: Over the years, various cast and crew members on Laverne & Shirley say that they had to work long hours because you and Penny would often do re-writes on the script. What drove you to work so hard on that show?
CW: We had a litmus test, which was if the script made Penny and me laugh out loud, then we figured it would translate to the audience at home. When it didn’t, we would re-write it, or try and put things in that made it funny. Once we got the show on its feet and started moving around, we would add things, add lines, and ad lib. The whole cast would.
JL: Even in the late 1970’s, there were certain things you couldn’t do or say on television, thus the reason for you and Penny using the phrase “Vody-O-Doe-Doe,” instead of saying “having sex”. If Laverne & Shirley were on the air today, would using more graphic language make the show better or funnier?
CW: No, it wouldn’t. When audiences of today laugh at graphic language, they’re usually laughing out of nervousness, not out of joy.
Also, we had a censor back then. He was a born-again Christian and the nicest guy, and he wouldn’t let us get away with anything. That’s how we came up with “Vody-O-Doe-Doe,” which made the audience laugh out loud, because they know what Shirley did. It’s much more fun when everybody is thinking the same thing at the same time. Instead of saying someone is showing pornography, we’d say, “They’re showing dirty pictures,” and the audience would laugh because it’s much more fun. We used innuendo and attitude in a fun-loving way.
JL: Moving from comedy to drama, I went back recently and watched the episode you did on Law & Order: SVU in which you played an evil woman who was trying to kill her little granddaughter. You also played serious roles in such films as “The Conversation” with Gene Hackman. Do you prefer doing drama over comedy, or wish you had done more?
CW: I’d like to have played more middle-of-the-road parts, but I didn’t have a chance because no one was going to cast me after Laverne & Shirley I remember going up for this big part, and I went in, and the producer said, “I’d love to cast you, but I can’t. You’re just too recognizable as Shirley Feeney.” And it’s the truth, and I understand that. Look, it’s a blessing that I got to play that character and it became so popular with people, so I never regret that.
JL: Do you remember when you first realized you were famous?
CW: I guess it was in the second season we were in New York City and they had asked us to be in the Thanksgiving Day parade, and we were on this float, and we saw all these people push past this barrier and they were running toward us. So we looked behind us to see who it was they were running toward, and we were going to join them [laughs]. It must be somebody big. Then all this security came up and we realized it was for us. That was the first time we realized the popularity of the show. Penny and I had this same glitch in our personalities where we thought, “we can’t possibly be the popular girls.” We never took show business seriously, and I think that’s part of the reason that Laverne & Shirley kept our feet on the ground.
JL: The road to success hasn’t always been easy for you. You had to wait tables at a pancake house, and you had all your scenes cut from your first film, but eventually became one of the most famous people in the world. What is it that anyone from any walk of life can learn from your journey?
CW: It can all be accomplished, but you have to always stay yourself. You have to keep your sense of humor. If you get knocked down, you have to get right back up and just keep going. God played a big part for me. I would talk to God and I’d get brave again. You always have to stay brave, and have faith in yourself and in all the beautiful things around you. You’re not always going to be invited to the party, you’re not always going to get the job, and you can’t let that deter you from what you want. If somebody else gets the job, you bless them and say “it wasn’t meant for me.” There was a point where I thought I’d be back to waiting tables, and I was OK with that, and it’s right before I got Laverne & Shirley.
JL: I know you get a lot of fan mail, but I wonder if you realize how much pleasure and even comfort you’ve given to people over the years. There must have been times when someone had just lost a loved one, or lost their job, and they turned the TV on and watched Laverne & Shirley and you had an impact on their lives.
CW: Thanks Jim. Yeah, people still come up to me and say, “You got me through a very bad time in my life, and made me laugh at a really bad time.” I love people, and want to comfort them.
JL: So in a way, I guess you did become a nurse.
CW: Yeah, in a way I guess I was a nurse. But doing the show was such a blessing for me and such a privilege.
Fans of Cindy feel the same way whenever we watch her on screen. Cindy Williams left us way too soon, but she left us oh so much.
Posted April 4, 2023 By Triad TodayDuct Tape and Chalk Erasers
Once upon a time, about 60 years ago, there was a 6th-grade teacher at Brunson Elementary school who kept order in the classroom by tossing chalk-dust-filled erasers at students who weren’t paying attention. Kids who were downright disruptive faced a different punishment: they were made to get down on all fours and push a piece of chalk around the perimeter of the room with their nose. As a class clown, I experienced both punishments. When I told my parents about the teacher’s unconventional methods they laughed and said that I probably deserved it. The infamous disciplinarian’s name was Bob Montague, and he was the best teacher I ever had.
During that year over six decades ago, Mr. Montague broadened our intellectual, academic, and creative horizons in ways that we could only fully appreciate years later. In order to teach us the importance of civics, he made us compete in a weekly college bowl-type contest in which the only way you could score points (and a good grade) was to read the local newspapers cover to cover, and have a working knowledge of current events. He took us on a field trip to Washington D.C. to learn about government. He helped us produce our own version of The Sound of Music which we performed in front of the entire school and various community boosters. He taught us arts and crafts, and made us read about the cultures of other lands. He encouraged questions and discussion, and made sure we had plenty of time to exercise at recess. Mr. Montague also had a great sense of humor and loved to laugh. And yes, he found creative ways to mete out discipline.
Yet for all of Bob Montague’s inspiring instructional methods which helped to shape and improve our minds, if he were teaching today, he would have already been fired and perhaps sued for throwing erasers at class clowns and making bad boys push chalk around the floor with their nose. I was put in mind of this last week when reading about a teacher at Smithfield Middle School who was forced to resign because she put painters tape over the mouths of students who were disruptive in class.
The teacher in question was Dawn Felix who had just started working at the school in August. Her offenses were discovered when 11-year-old Brady Webster sent a selfie of his taped-over mouth to his mom Catherine who, in turn, posted it on Facebook. Mrs. Webster and other parents complained to the school principal and the Johnston County Sheriff’s Department investigated the matter. Despite the fact that the Sheriff determined an assault charge was not warranted, Ms. Felix subsequently turned in her resignation.
Could Dawn Felix have used less dramatic methods to discipline rowdy students rather than duct-taping their mouths shut? Absolutely. But in this era of cancel culture, I fear that any unconventional action she might have taken to maintain order in the classroom would have still resulted in her dismissal. Having said that, let me be clear about something. If Ms. Felix was abusive, intolerant, or incompetent, then I say good riddance to her. But if her worst offense was using tape to maintain classroom discipline, then I’m sorry she threw in the towel. There’s a shortage of teachers in this state as it is, and we can’t afford to lose good ones just because they expect students to pay attention and show respect for others.
When I was Brady’s age I got hit with erasers and had to push chalk around the floor with my nose, and the man who thought up those weird punishments helped to shape my life and career in ways that I could never repay. There’s no room in our schools for teachers who are mean and abusive, but there’s also no reason to chase away teachers who show tough love to their students now, so that those children will be successful and respectful later on.