
Once upon a time, there were only three TV channels to watch, and in the late 1970s, no show was bigger than Laverne & Shirley, a sitcom starring Cindy Williams and Penny Marshall as roommates who worked at a Milwaukee beer factory. The series was a spin-off from a Happy Days episode in which Fonzie had arranged for Laverne (Marshall) and Shirley (Williams) to double date with him and Richie (Ron Howard). By its third season, Laverne & Shirley was the number one show in the country, and its stars became cultural icons.
I caught up with Cindy last April and we talked by phone about her then-upcoming one-woman show, “Me, Myself, and Shirley”, which she performed at High Point Theatre. The show was a big hit and we stayed in touch after that, but I wondered why I didn’t get a response to my most recent email. Now I know why. Cindy had been in bad health the past few months, and on January 25 she passed away at the age of 75. The following are highlights from our conversation back in April.
JL: Do you remember the first time you performed on stage?
CW: Yes, it was in the first grade, and they had a talent show, and I sang “Hickory Dickory Dock”, and I had total stage fright, but I did it.
JL: Do you remember who won the talent show?
CW: No, but I’m sure it was some ne’er-do-well first-grader [laughs].
JL: When did you first realize that you wanted to act professionally?
CW: It was in high school. I had wanted to be a nurse, but I didn’t have an academic brain, so I entered a talent show at school, and the drama teacher, Mr. Kulp, said, “If you have an elective, I’d like to offer you a spot this coming semester to be in ‘Play Production’” so I did. That’s when I thought I’d like to be able to earn a living from acting. I just loved it so much.
JL: Over the years, various cast and crew members on Laverne & Shirley say that they had to work long hours because you and Penny would often do re-writes on the script. What drove you to work so hard on that show?
CW: We had a litmus test, which was if the script made Penny and me laugh out loud, then we figured it would translate to the audience at home. When it didn’t, we would re-write it, or try and put things in that made it funny. Once we got the show on its feet and started moving around, we would add things, add lines, and ad lib. The whole cast would.
JL: Even in the late 1970’s, there were certain things you couldn’t do or say on television, thus the reason for you and Penny using the phrase “Vody-O-Doe-Doe,” instead of saying “having sex”. If Laverne & Shirley were on the air today, would using more graphic language make the show better or funnier?
CW: No, it wouldn’t. When audiences of today laugh at graphic language, they’re usually laughing out of nervousness, not out of joy.
Also, we had a censor back then. He was a born-again Christian and the nicest guy, and he wouldn’t let us get away with anything. That’s how we came up with “Vody-O-Doe-Doe,” which made the audience laugh out loud, because they know what Shirley did. It’s much more fun when everybody is thinking the same thing at the same time. Instead of saying someone is showing pornography, we’d say, “They’re showing dirty pictures,” and the audience would laugh because it’s much more fun. We used innuendo and attitude in a fun-loving way.
JL: Moving from comedy to drama, I went back recently and watched the episode you did on Law & Order: SVU in which you played an evil woman who was trying to kill her little granddaughter. You also played serious roles in such films as “The Conversation” with Gene Hackman. Do you prefer doing drama over comedy, or wish you had done more?
CW: I’d like to have played more middle-of-the-road parts, but I didn’t have a chance because no one was going to cast me after Laverne & Shirley I remember going up for this big part, and I went in, and the producer said, “I’d love to cast you, but I can’t. You’re just too recognizable as Shirley Feeney.” And it’s the truth, and I understand that. Look, it’s a blessing that I got to play that character and it became so popular with people, so I never regret that.
JL: Do you remember when you first realized you were famous?
CW: I guess it was in the second season we were in New York City and they had asked us to be in the Thanksgiving Day parade, and we were on this float, and we saw all these people push past this barrier and they were running toward us. So we looked behind us to see who it was they were running toward, and we were going to join them [laughs]. It must be somebody big. Then all this security came up and we realized it was for us. That was the first time we realized the popularity of the show. Penny and I had this same glitch in our personalities where we thought, “we can’t possibly be the popular girls.” We never took show business seriously, and I think that’s part of the reason that Laverne & Shirley kept our feet on the ground.
JL: The road to success hasn’t always been easy for you. You had to wait tables at a pancake house, and you had all your scenes cut from your first film, but eventually became one of the most famous people in the world. What is it that anyone from any walk of life can learn from your journey?
CW: It can all be accomplished, but you have to always stay yourself. You have to keep your sense of humor. If you get knocked down, you have to get right back up and just keep going. God played a big part for me. I would talk to God and I’d get brave again. You always have to stay brave, and have faith in yourself and in all the beautiful things around you. You’re not always going to be invited to the party, you’re not always going to get the job, and you can’t let that deter you from what you want. If somebody else gets the job, you bless them and say “it wasn’t meant for me.” There was a point where I thought I’d be back to waiting tables, and I was OK with that, and it’s right before I got Laverne & Shirley.
JL: I know you get a lot of fan mail, but I wonder if you realize how much pleasure and even comfort you’ve given to people over the years. There must have been times when someone had just lost a loved one, or lost their job, and they turned the TV on and watched Laverne & Shirley and you had an impact on their lives.
CW: Thanks Jim. Yeah, people still come up to me and say, “You got me through a very bad time in my life, and made me laugh at a really bad time.” I love people, and want to comfort them.
JL: So in a way, I guess you did become a nurse.
CW: Yeah, in a way I guess I was a nurse. But doing the show was such a blessing for me and such a privilege.
Fans of Cindy feel the same way whenever we watch her on screen. Cindy Williams left us way too soon, but she left us oh so much.
































Posted February 14, 2023 By Triad TodayBarbara Johns to Replace Robert E. Lee
Hall of Fame baseball player Johnny Bench once told me that you’re never too old to have heroes. One of mine is Barbara Johns, and I’m proud to say that soon a bronze sculpture of her will stand in the U.S. Capitol, replacing a statue of Confederate general Robert E. Lee.
Barbara Johns wasn’t just a participant in the civil rights movement, she triggered it. Barbara made her mark before Rosa Parks boarded a bus, before Dr. Martin Luther King marched, and before the Greensboro Four sat at the lunch counter. Barbara led a national movement for equality, and she did it at the ripe old age of 16.
In 1951 Barbara Johns was a junior at R.R. Moton High, an all-Black school in the Prince Edward County, Virginia town of Farmville. She was an exemplary student who enjoyed English, history, French, and music, and was a member of the debate team. Barbara was mature beyond her years and had a sense of social justice that was inspired by her uncle, The Rev. Vernon Johns, who, at the time was pastor of Dexter Ave. Baptist Church in Montgomery, Alabama. (He would be succeeded in that role by Dr. King in 1952.)
Built in 1939, Moton was a small brick structure designed to hold 180 students. But by 1951, over 450 children were crammed into the school. Not only was the building over-crowded, it was also woefully inadequate for learning. There was no library, no cafeteria, no gym, and no science lab. To alleviate the overflow of students, the Prince Edward school board had several tar paper shacks erected adjacent to the main building. On rainy days, water poured through the leaky roofs, and on cold days students had to make do with a small stove. The stove was riddled with holes and hot coals would often pop out onto the floor. By contrast, just down the road stood the all-white high school, which had the best of everything. In those days, the concept of separate but equal was a cruel joke. Schools were separated by race for sure, but they were sure as hell not equal.
I began researching the Moton school saga about 30 years ago. Barbara had passed away by then, but I connected with some of her family and friends and was able to get a copy of Barbara’s unfinished manuscript soon after it was discovered in 1999. In it, Barbara wrote of the long walks she would take in the woods, contemplating the conditions of her school and of her dreams for a better one.
Barbara then wrote about a defining incident that convinced her to take action.
The action Barbara took would help trigger a national movement to provide an equal education for all students. On April 23, 1951, she enacted a carefully devised plan. First, she got the principal out of the building on a ruse, then she enlisted the aid of seven other students to deliver bogus notes to every teacher, advising them to have their students assemble in the auditorium. Barbara then addressed the student body and convinced them to stage a walkout. On the second day of the strike, Johns and a large group of students marched to the superintendent’s office where Barbara asked why Black students couldn’t just attend school with whites. The superintendent said that integration was against Virginia law, but promised that a new school was in the works for the Moton students. He lied about the new school. Even worse, he punished the protesting students by taking all of their buses out of commission. The strike lasted for two weeks, during which time Barbara received death threats.
Barbara wrote to the NAACP and asked for help. Soon after, two attorneys arrived in Farmville to meet with Barbara and other student leaders. Eventually their case was folded into Brown v Board of Education, and by 1959, Prince Edward County schools were ordered to desegregate. But the racist county school board refused to comply, and they got around the law by closing all of their public schools, and then opening a makeshift private academy just for the white students to attend. Black students in the area became known as the Lost Generation because they were without a school for five years. Finally, in 1964, all public schools in Farmville were reopened when the Supreme Court ruled that Prince Edward’s racist scheme violated the 14th Amendment by denying Black students equal protection under the law. Still, it would be another 20 years before the county’s schools were fully integrated. Nevertheless, the state of public education had changed forever, and, in large part, we all have a 16-year-old girl to thank for it.
Barbara Johns was a visionary and an activist, and if there was a Mt. Rushmore of Civil Rights leaders, she would be on it. For now, we’ll settle for having her likeness in the nation’s Capitol.
(The original Moton school has since been restored and today serves as a museum and a venue for community events. For more information or to make a donation, visit MotonMuseum.org)